BREAKING UPDATE: Cardoza switch is first of 40!

Today, United States Congressman Jim Costa (CA-20) and United States Congressman Dennis Cardoza (CA-18) endorsed Barack Obama for president. Congressman Cardoza previously supported Senator Hillary Clinton.

These endorsements mean that Senator Obama has been endorsed by 310.5 superdelegates.  Obama is 59 delegates away from securing the Democratic nomination.

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/

The Field has learned that Cardoza is the first of a group of at least 40 Clinton delegates, many of them from California, that through talking among themselves came to a joint decision that all of them would vote for Obama at the convention. They have informed Senator Clinton that it’s time to unite around Obama, and that they will be coming out, one or two at a time, and announcing their switch between now and the convention if Senator Clinton doesn’t do the same.

Cardoza is one of the leaders of this effort (which includes not only superdelegates, but here’s something that should set off some paranoia in Camp Clinton: there are pledged Clinton delegates in “The Cardoza 40,” too). One Field Hand reports that during a recent Cardoza fundraising event in California the effort was discussed openly in front of other Democrats. Cardoza’s announcement, today, sent the message that the effort is serious and for real.

This is not “excellent news for Hillary Clinton.”

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=1258



Display:


The Moral is... (1.91 / 23)

...if you start changing the rules mid game, supporters start leaving the stadium


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:07:33 AM EST

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 1)

It's definitely the moral.  However, I'm not sure I am cool with it.  I guess it's a case of reaping what you sow.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:56:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 10)

Donating money to help elect Democrats is NOT the same as buying SD's.  All candidates donate to help elect Democrats.  It's not Obama's fault that Clinton was so freaking stingy and he ended up donating more.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 11)

She's not stingy.  One of her supporters offered the Young Democrats $1 million for their SD votes.


by niksder on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:37:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 3)

niksder are serious? i really hope that was a snark.
1) Her supporters offering 1 million does not mean shes not stingy, since she is not the one offering money.

2) What her supporters did was a BRIBE. They pretty much said we'll give you 1 million if you vote for Clinton. Obama did no such thing, the money was given to SD's with no strings attached. It was used to support candidates in 2004 & 2006 when Obama was flying around the country raising money to build the democratic party.


by anujtron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 6)

And that jerk-off who offered the money to the Young Dems is now threatening the party that they won't have money if Clinton is not vp:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/05/hillarys_top_fundraiser_ says_t.php
In a move that could foreshadow a public push from the Hillary forces to get Barack Obama to invite her on the ticket, Hillary's top campaign fundraising official said in an interview that there's a "risk" that Hillary's political and financial supporters won't get behind Obama in time for him to win in November if she's passed over for the veep slot.

The fundraiser, businessman Hassan Nemazee, is Hillary's leading finance chair and one of the most influential money men in the party. He's the first prominent Hillary campaign official to raise the possiblity of an Obama loss should she not be invited on the ticket, and his comments suggests that this argument could emerge as central to any Clinton camp push to make her veep.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 1)

There is absolutely no way that will work.  If Obama and the democratic party decide to offer Hillary the VP, it will be because they think it gives us the best chance at reconcilling the two halves of the democratic party.  Obama definitely needs a lot of Clinton supporters (which he has already, though let's get more!) to vote for him in the fall, but he doesn't need her money.

This money thing isn't a slight against Clinton, but Obama has really capitalized on the internet cash cow to such an extent that he doesn't need those big donors (not that I'm saying they shouldn't give to him anyway :)  )


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:25:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (none / 0)

reconciling.  Damn english.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 1)

Who cares... Obama has a fundraising machine so well built that he can tell Hassan to go fuck himself.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, because we all know... (2.00 / 1)

... Obama got his frontrunner status without winning any white people or hispanics.  /snark

Please.  I live in the heart of a Hispanic neighborhood in the dominantly white state of Wisconsin.  Both of those demographics had no problems voting for him in our Primary.


by protothad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:41:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (none / 0)

Obama has passed Hillary among Hispanics and women according to the Gallup tracking poll. Obama will have no trouble winning Hispanics by a huge margin against McCain.


by hankg on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (none / 0)

No snark.


by MNPundit on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:59:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (2.00 / 9)

The Clintons and their DLC ran Obama?
Talk about being hoisted on your own petard!
Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.
by Freespeechzone on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:30:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (1.00 / 1)

Okay let's talk about it.

First of all, it's hoist on your own petard.  The past tense of hoist is hoist.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:21:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (2.00 / 1)

If grammar is all you can find to disagree with, I rest my case.


Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.
by Freespeechzone on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (2.00 / 1)

If your going to be the grammar police, just thought you should know the saying is hoist by your own petard.  Not "on" your petard.

A petard is a small bomb, you are either hoist by it or with it, not on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard


by TexH on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:05:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (none / 0)

Dictionary.com: hoisted


by edg1 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:54:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (none / 0)

I had the same reaction.  Calling Obama the establishment candidate compared to the candidate that is a leader of the DLC is just plain weird.  By her definition, I guess when you gain frontrunner status you automatically gain 'establishment' cred.


by protothad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:49:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (none / 0)

I guess they'll next be accusing Obama of using the RFK assassination as political fodder.


Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.
by Freespeechzone on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:06:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (none / 0)

You joke, and yet look at linfar's latest hallucination.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:43:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The elite Washington establishment ran Obama? (none / 0)

I was joking?


Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.
by Freespeechzone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:03:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 8)

Yeah, that's why Hillary started out with a 100 superdelegate edge, the bulk of the money and an air of inevitability.

And that's why even though Obama now leads among elected supers, she still has a slight edge in party insider supers.

Yeah, that must be it.

*sigh*


by Pragmatic Left on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:19:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 1)

No, Hillary is leading the lobbyists in an insurgency.


by hankg on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:13:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Interesting hypothesis. (2.00 / 1)

Unfortunately, disproved by reality.


by edg1 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (none / 0)

Man, I wish I could have a hit of whatever you're on.


by Pragmatic Left on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah,Obama even gave money to clinton's senate run (2.00 / 2)

I guess he was trying to buy her support, eh?


by Tenafly Viper on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh-oh! $4200 to a Sen. Clinton. (2.00 / 4)

She must be going to endorse Obama any day now.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:28:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 2)

as a supporter of Sen. Obama's campaign. It is my will that funds donated be used not only to better his campaign but to fund and help the DNC with the general.

Further I will be making direct donations to the DNC quite soon.


by eeruck01 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (none / 0)


Sounds weirdly and inexplicably stupid to me.  There's no end served but insult- what's the hurry before June 4?  Is Team Obama feeling that shaky?
by killjoy on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:20:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (2.00 / 1)

"Come back here, I'll bite your knees off" right? The Obama campaign is shaky?

The floating of the rumor was nice. The delegates are looking for a polite way to let Clinton know they've given her all the time they can, but she lost the election portion of the primary and they're not convinced by her other arguments.

The party has given her all they can. It shows how much affection there is in the party for the Clintons.


by luckymortal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:28:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Moral is... (none / 0)


Well, security is easy to recognize.  This behavior is not- it's just resentments coming out.

I was a bit hopeful that Democratic centrism/conservatism would burn out along with the Republican reactionary kind during the past 3-4 years.

Seems like we need that part of the Party to likewise come forth, run things as best they can again (the record is not good), and trip up against the realities they always try to ignore.  As per usual.

I was hoping we'd skip that step this time around, but apparently not.


by killjoy on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:40:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

YOUCANTTRUSTA (2.00 / 7)

JUDASCARDOZA!!!

Where are all the Clinton supporters who keep saying SDs should pay attention to the race and make informed decisions?

What do y'all call this?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:12:38 AM EST

Re: YOUCANTTRUSTA (2.00 / 10)

Yep.  I get a good chuckle out of a certain someone's diaries that always shout, "LISTEN UP SUPERS"!

Uhh (pointing to scoreboard), they are.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cardoza mentions the FL/MI issue (2.00 / 20)

as one of his reasons for switching.  Says he's dismayed that Clinton is trying to change the rules of the primaries "in the 4th quarter" and that it is too divisive.

This is the first Clinton super who has switched who has explicitly criticized Clinton in making the switch.  That is an ominous sign for Clinton, and hopefully it will help soften the over-heated rhetoric on Fl/MI.  


by ProfessorReo on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:16:32 AM EST

Re: Cardoza mentions the FL/MI issue (2.00 / 2)

Wow, did he really say that?  Can you link me up please?  I would love to have that quote in my pocket for future reference.


by haystax calhoun on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:05:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cardoza mentions the FL/MI issue, here you go (2.00 / 14)

Congressman Cardoza said, "This is the most important election of my lifetime. While I continue to greatly respect and admire Senator Clinton and feel she has made history with her campaign, I believe that Senator Obama will inevitably be our party's nominee for President. He has proven himself to be a thoughtful, knowledgeable, and inspirational leader and will take America in a new direction, which we desperately need.

"I am deeply concerned about the contentious primary campaign and controversy surrounding the seating of delegates from Florida and Michigan - two states Democrats need to win in November. I will not support changing the rules in the fourth quarter of this contest through some convoluted DNC rules committee process. Yet, we must find a resolution to seat the Michigan and Florida delegates so these states' voters are represented at the Convention. I believe we need to avoid this potentially divisive situation by uniting behind one nominee and bringing the party together immediately. Therefore, I have made the decision to support Senator Obama at the Democratic Convention in my role as a super delegate."

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/ superdelegate-endorsements-for-friday_23 .html


by Bastet on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:12:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: here you go (2.00 / 8)

NICE!  Thank you.
Absolutely beautiful money quote:
"I will not support changing the rules in the fourth quarter of this contest through some convoluted DNC rules committee process."
by haystax calhoun on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shame on HRC (2.00 / 7)

Changing the rules late in the game doesn't bug me so much.  That's politics.  We see them all switch sides on issues if it suits 'em.

What really bugs me is watching Clinton get all sanctimonious.  It wasn't a civil rights issue before and now all of a sudden Clinton is portraying herself as principled now that her campaign desperately needs those delegates.

It's a shame really.  And it makes me lose respect for someone I once held in high regard.


Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.
by Dirk Diggler on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: here you go (2.00 / 3)

If you want more, check out what Governor Paterson (still a Hillary supporter) said yesterday.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h4ns6 2E4MxELqxBYE1BViCoAHzxAD90QTTA00

This might not be the best link.  I just googled their names together.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:28:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: here you go (2.00 / 1)

Wow, a reasonable clinton supporter.  Great link!
Thanks.
Paterson:
"Candidates have to be cautious in their zeal to win that they don't trample on the process."
by haystax calhoun on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:17:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cardoza mentions the FL/MI issue (none / 0)

Governor Patterson in NY said the same thing although he has not switched. The Supers wanted to give Hillary the opportunity to exit gracefully on her own terms after the last vote was cast.

But now that she is threatening the nuclear option they are letting her know they won't stand for it and if she can't accept defeat gracefully then they will be forced to dump her over the side. Something they would really like to avoid but if she thinks she can intimidate them in a game of chicken they just told her they are not going to blink.


by hankg on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate (2.00 / 1)

The O campaign is simply amazing..
I am sure they could have brought out a few
on Wed...
But this is a holiday weekend so they will wait for next week..
A reminder of the Edwards action this time last year..
http://www.discourse.net/archives/2007/0 5/john_edwards_to_organize_war_protest_m emorial_day_weekend.html

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:32:38 AM EST

Re: Superdelegate (2.00 / 5)

Obama could pick up as many as 7 superdelegates this weekend.
There are 7 new superdelegates being named this weekend, all in states that Obama won: Alaska (1), Georgia (2), Wyoming (1) and Hawaii (3). Obama has a good chance to pick up all 7.

by bookish on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i love the fact so many are switching (2.00 / 2)

because it shows that can switch right back over the course of the next few months.

Maybe it will happen. Probably won't, but those are the rules.

if i'm hillary, i play this to the end.

this cowards will go right with the media.  who knows what will be happening in the media in August?

Plus if hilary wins the most votes by the end of the process, she should demand the nomination and only settle for v.p.


by yellowdem1129 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:47:09 AM EST

This is excellent news! (2.00 / 9)

I think when Obama is sworn in as 44 it will be even better news for Hillary, as it will mean he can only ever be president for 8 years maximum.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:49:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is excellent news! (none / 0)

So awesome.  Phantom rec.


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Fri May 23, 2008 at 06:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is excellent news! (none / 0)

That's if he wins - I'm skeptical about those chances. And of course one has to hope that I am COMPLETELY WRONG about his ability b/c then we are really screwed.


by jrsygrl on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i love the fact so many are switching (2.00 / 5)

Why I don't necessarily agree with SDs switching why do you have to call them "cowards" for doing so when he gave a logical, ethical reason for doing it? Tacky.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:00:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i love the fact so many are switching (2.00 / 5)

It's not the media that are causing your, so called, "coward" supers to flip, it's the pledged delegate count, and as an added bonus, it's the Clinton campaign's pseudo-moral posturing over FL/MI (see Cardoza endorsement).


by haystax calhoun on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:19:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i love the fact so many are switching (2.00 / 1)

Primarily, I think supers see the need for party unity.  Obama's won the pledged delegates and has run the better campaign.  They're lining up behind the winner.  They would like Clinton go exit gracefully.  But, if she doesn't, then it looks like they'll push her.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You forget (2.00 / 5)

that Hillary is $20 million dollars in debt right now. By August, Obama is going to be sitting on at least (probably more than) $100 million dollars and  Hillary will have acquired even more debt.

To think that the Super Delegates are going to switch from the well funded candidate to the candidate with no money is beyond folly. The most important primary after Super Tuesday was the money primary, and Obama won that in a blowout. Hillary has entered Huckabee territory right now and she can fight on as long as she wants. But if a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to witness, it doesn't make a sound.


by johnnyappleseed on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Florida and Michigan (2.00 / 11)

Florida and Michigan
Florida and Michigan
Florida and Michigan

She gambled on Florida and Michigan and is losing.  The Supers are pretty damn pissed off at Hillary for spotlighting those two states and essentially blaming the DNC and Obama for doing what she and her supporters supported from the beginning.

She got bad advice (yet again.)  From this point on, she is dealing with SuperDelegates - smart, informed political people, not "low information, poorly educated" voters.  Supers are not buying her crap.


by rf7777 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:52:05 AM EST

Re: Florida and Michigan (2.00 / 5)

The Clintons have always been known as savvy politicians, however I really believe they are having trouble adjusting to a more informed electorate and greater availability of information in this election cycle.


by catalysis on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Spot on, they need Clinton OS V 3.0 (2.00 / 2)


by KLRinLA on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:27:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida and Michigan (none / 0)


No, to a Party running centrist/moderate while pretending not to, and 2-3 new/renewed groups rising in the Party that reject the rest.  (There is plenty of information and advice that they don't accept and don't process.)

The question has never been if this new coalition is going to fall flat on its face, it's been When.


by killjoy on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:27:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 8)

Two Edwards delegates announce for Sen. Obama
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Two _New_Hampshire_Edwards_delegates_0523200 8.html
"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:00:11 PM EST

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 1)

He's from a state that backs Clinton.  So much for "the Supers shouldn't vote against the will of the people" argument.


by bellarose on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:09:21 PM EST

Buyer's remorse (2.00 / 7)

California voters would change their February primary vote for Hillary Clinton to a vote for Barack Obama if the vote were held again, according to an exclusive poll commissioned by CBS 5.

While voters in the California Democratic Presidential Primary backed Clinton by a 10-point margin, a new SurveyUSA poll shows that if given the chance to vote again, Californians would choose Barack Obama by a 6-point margin, 49%-43%.

http://cbs5.com/politics/poll.clinton.ob ama.2.720136.html


by Bee on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Buyer's remorse (none / 0)

That is wrong as it the story on the CBS website. if you download the SUSA crosstabs for the full poll from the link they provide you will see that while Clinton won by 10% the first time she would only win by 2% now. the poll was conducted May 7 and 8 with a magin of error of =-4%.

I'm not sure why they sited the numbers they did but the poll itself on SUSA's site does not back it up.

Hereis the link:

http://static.cbslocal.com/station/kpix/ docs/2008/surveyUSA_poll_May9.pdf


by americanincanada on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Buyer's remorse (none / 0)

You must read the seoncd paragraph and all qualifiying information before going with just the one numebr.


by americanincanada on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:27:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Buyer's remorse (none / 0)

Here's an article that shows Californians are switching their support.  Not only that, but Obama is consolidating his support with demographics that were supposed to be unfriendly to him, such as latinos (although I've always suspected that was BS).

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/camp aign-2008/2008/05/22/new-poll-finds-big- shift-toward-obama.html


by Tenafly Viper on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:38:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Buyer's remorse (none / 0)

Just because a demographics prefers Clinton does not mean they reject Obama.  The perceived shift to Obama is just a result of many people concluding that the nomination process is drawing to a close.  The Democrats will rally behind their nominee; it will just take time.


by protothad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:11:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 4)

Hasn't Clinton been against that all along?

Interesting, considering 1 out of every 5 of her superdelegates are from New York.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:20:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 3)

Clinton has expressly stated that SDs can vote however they want to vote.


by notedgeways on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:40:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She also made it clear that PLEDGED delegates... (2.00 / 2)

... are free to vote however they choose.


Ignorance is weakness. Get strong.
by tbetz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 3)

If you're going to try and twist what was an argument about SDs not overturning the results on a national level to a state level argument (even though you know damn well that's not what the argument was) then you're going to have even bigger troubles as Barack has won twice as many states as Hillary.

The argument was originally a statement against the SD party insiders doing a smoke filled back room deal to counteract the results of the democratic portion of the process.  It's ironic that some folks around here want to (disingenuously) cry the blues about democracy for the self serving purpose of get the farcical beauty contest from Florida and the Sadam Hussein style only one name on the ballot contest in Michigan to count (in direct violation of the agreement that Hillary's campaign helped to create and then signed on to), but these same people who are willing to ignore everything that your average kindergarten student knows about fair play will then turn around the throw democracy right out the window if they can get SDs to help them to do it.  They'll even ignore the votes of caucus participants in order to lie about the invalid popular vote metric!  Talk about irony!  They have to abandon democracy (by not counting caucus voters in the PV total) in order to even get into a position to even pretend to argue for democracy!


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:46:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza (2.00 / 1)

That argument, which I subscribe to at a high level, has always been vexed: There are quite commonly conflicting loyalties for supers.  Do they follow the will of their district, their state, or the country at large?  If every super followed the first, then the second and third would jibe.  But they do not, and most supers who have recently endorsed Obama seem to be following the broadest interpretation of "the will of the voters."  Indeed, if I'm correct that the apportionment of supers by state imperfectly maps to the apportionment of pledged delegates, at least for some of them it seems to make sense to follow the overall results.


by deminva on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (none / 0)


Costa is a Blue Dog, not sure about Cardoza.

In any case, Obama is lining up the conservative and Red State parts of the Party.  Or rather, when Edwards proved unable to generate enough pull, they went to Obama and made an alliance with him.


by killjoy on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:30:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 0)

You are suggesting that Edwards was the choice of the Blue Dog/Red State? Seriously?

"Two Americas" was a rallying cry of the Blue Dogs?

The health care plan that Obama and Clinton cribbed from was a Blue Dog rallying call?

Poverty as a political focus was a Blue Dog rallying call?


by letterc on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 5)

Once Nancy Pelosi declares, expect the downpour.

The supers are now waiting for June 3, Hillary Clinton or even Barack Obama; they are waiting for the Speaker.


If I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say Barack Obama is going to be the next president.
by Andre X on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:14:28 PM EST

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 2)

Pelosi's the convention chair; because of this position, she's kind of obligated to remain neutral.  She likely won't declare until we know who the nominee is.

But what she can do is give the ok behind the scenes to move over to Obama.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 2)

That is exactly what she is doing.

She is nudging all those supers in the House to start moving.

That letter to them would not have gone out without the Speaker's approval.


If I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say Barack Obama is going to be the next president.
by Andre X on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 5)

She already has declared.  She and 7 others have said that they will vote for who ever gets the pledged delegate majority.  Barack already has that according to the rules.  However, since someone wants to change the rules to suit their self in the fourth quarter (like my 3 year old once he starts losing at "chutes and ladders") and that same candidate's supporters are in love with their victim complex, Nancy and the rest of "The Pelosi Club" will wait until he has a majority of pledged delegates in accordance with whatever the result of the May 31st meeting turn out to be.  Regardless, he will have their votes soon, before the convention anyway.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:53:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (none / 0)

Anyone know how many are exactly in the Pelosi Club?


If I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say Barack Obama is going to be the next president.
by Andre X on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (none / 0)

9


by interestedbystander on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think she may have waffled a bit (2.00 / 2)

I saw her on the NewsHour the other night, and she said, "Well, I will endorse when we have a nominee. And we may see that in June. And if that's the case, then I would endorse then. If we still don't have a nominee, I would want to be a fair broker between the two at the time of the convention."

This seems to suggest that she won't endorse until Clinton drops out, since we've already passed the majority of pledged delegates threshold.

This is, of course, the same interview where she said of the "dream ticket": "In all honesty, I do think it is not likely. They haven't asked me who I think should be their running mate. You have. And I don't think that would be the ticket that will win for us.

Let me say it another way: I don't think that's the ticket that is going to happen. If it is the ticket that happens, it will be the winning ticket, but I don't see it happening."


by bookish on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:53:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think she may have waffled a bit (2.00 / 1)

I suspect that after we know what 50%+1 is with regard to pledged delegates in the post May 31st world and he crosses that threshold she will come out and say: "We have our nominee."  


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:03:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do hope you're right. n/t (none / 0)


by bookish on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 3)

Didn't you hear?  Nancy Pelosi is a sexist turncoat who follows Barack Obama because she likes to take orders from callow men - nobody likes her and she never did anything good for women anyway.

Oh yes, and she and Obama are both San-Francisco-loving, latte-drinking librul elites who like Frrrrance.  Real Americans hate them both and they will lead our party to dooooom.


by TL on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (none / 0)

Yes, it is a fact that Nancy Pelosi is a San Francisco elite.  I do not know that she likes lattes but she may, I just don't know.


If I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say Barack Obama is going to be the next president.
by Andre X on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 3)

Damn.  I forgot about the Prius - they're Prius drivers who don't understand how much 3 cents a day means to ordinary hard-working Americans.


by TL on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:08:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (none / 0)

What happened to all the Volvos?

I hope that they got a good value on the trade-in for their hybrids


If I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say Barack Obama is going to be the next president.
by Andre X on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:13:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 2)

Millions of us are waiting with baited breath for hybrid Volvos with in-dash latte makers.


by deminva on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:36:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (none / 0)

Only if they throw in Birkenstock sandals!


If I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say Barack Obama is going to be the next president.
by Andre X on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:43:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (none / 0)

correction: NOW to NOT


If I had to make a prediction right now, I'd say Barack Obama is going to be the next president.
by Andre X on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:15:01 PM EST

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 2)

Today's new count
Obama +4
Clinton -1
Which really does add up to 5.
"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:33:28 PM EST

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 3)

one last..as my grandson (3 mos) is waking and will require attention.

I love the smell of irony in the morning.
Some fervent Clinton supporters have trotted out the
"buyers remorse" meme.
Here is an article from Rep. Cardoza's initial
endorsement.

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/251092 .html
(notice his district)


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 12:42:01 PM EST

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton (none / 0)

Cardoza had to go with the will of the people?
How quaint....
by Mae Scott on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:05:02 PM EST

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton (none / 0)

Current will of the California people.  Obama is polling ahead of Clinton in CA now and is the much stronger candidate in the GE in this state as well.
LA Times poll will come out this afternoon showing McCain  w/in the margin of error of Clinton.
 
by haystax calhoun on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You all don't understand.... (2.00 / 12)

The only reason Hillary is losing is because America is Sexist.

And Hillary is more electable in the GE because America is Sexist.  Er I mean because America is Racist. And because America is racist, Obama is winning the nomin....er....I mean sexist.....er....um.....

What was the talking point again?


by IowaMike on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:13:34 PM EST

Re: You all don't understand.... (2.00 / 2)

She's borrowing a Bush phrasing, just like "You're either with us or against us", and "Stay the course"

"Sexually discriminate against me once, can't sexually discriminate against me again."


"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08
by obscurant on Fri May 23, 2008 at 01:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You all don't understand.... (none / 0)

I think perhaps that America is sexily racist. Or is it sexist, but in a racy sort of way?

Ah, screw it. It's Friday. It's a three-day weekend. Bring on the beer.

And, Clinton supporters, I suggest you imbibe large doses of booze this weekend. After all, it's long been considered truth serum. Maybe come Tuesday morning, you'll start making sense.


by BenderRodriguez on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 4)

How many undeclared superdelegates remaining from the caucus states?  Because you can bet those superdelegates are very upset over Clinton's FL/MI play and the way she has disparaged caucuses.  

Also, I suspect that some of the superdelegates from large primary states are going to be turned off by the FL/MI argument, because states like California played by the rules and did not move up their primary date.  And here is Clinton trying to reward two states for flagrantly violating the DNC rules that all the other states adhered to.  


by ProfessorReo on Fri May 23, 2008 at 02:01:39 PM EST

Re: Superdelegate Cardoza switches from Clinton to (2.00 / 2)

Next weekend is Maine's state convention and it's very likely that Obama will be picking up some delegates there. The uncommitteds were basically Kucinich folks and Edwards folks who wanted to be able to affect the party platform and delegate selections.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BREAKING UPDATE: Cardoza switch is first of 40 (none / 0)

How awful!


by jrsygrl on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:22:32 PM EST

WHOO HOOO!!!! (2.00 / 1)

GOBAMA!  Thanks for the news!


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:28:08 PM EST

Re: BREAKING UPDATE: Cardoza switch is first of 40 (2.00 / 1)

Oh good, another unsubstantiated rumor! Those seem to flying fast and furious these days.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:29:27 PM EST

I think it's time (none / 0)

for the supers to start declaring (or even switching), but the idea of pledged delegates switching is a little disturbing.


by xeju on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:44:43 PM EST

Re: I think it's time (none / 0)

Agreed - SD's get to change their mind based on what they think is best for the party, and can do so at any time.  Clearly, any Clinton SD is kidding themselves if they don't see they have a duty to put a stop to what Clinton is doing and switch to Obama right away.

But pledged delegates switching is antidemocratic and we just can't have people disregard the will expressed by the voters they represent as a delegate by acting like an SD and changing their mind.  


John McCain: Fund Iraq? No problem! Kids Health Insurance? Screw 'em.
by PeterB on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is good. (2.00 / 1)

A subtle approach.

Much kinder than announcing all at once. Shows how much affection the party has for the Clintons.


by luckymortal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 03:50:36 PM EST

Agreed. n/t (2.00 / 1)


Obama 2008!
by lollydee on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:02:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BREAKING UPDATE: Cardoza switch is first of 40 (2.00 / 1)

Obviously the Democratic Party know how to defuse Hillary. Good news for November!
by french imp on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:15:50 PM EST

Supers cannot cast vote before convention (none / 0)

  • their movement does not matter until August.
  • nominee can be clear only when somebody has 2210 delegates, which is mathematically impossible before convention.
  • So all this switches just a white noise until convention.

Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:18:45 PM EST

Re: Supers cannot cast vote before convention (2.00 / 1)

Great! Then my money's on Kucinich.

All these elections Obama's been winning are meaningless. In the end, I think the supers will come around....


by luckymortal on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:36:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Supers cannot cast vote before convention (none / 0)

Great point.  The pledged delegates don't vote until then either! Edwards can still pull it off!


by pablocruz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So Gravel should have stayed in? (none / 0)

EOM


by protothad on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:26:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Gravel should have stayed in? (none / 0)

Gravel still is in! He's just running a stealth campaign!

Go Gravel!


by letterc on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:36:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BREAKING UPDATE: Cardoza switch is first of 40 (2.00 / 1)

YEAAAAAAGHYHHHHHHHHHHH


by Bobby Obama on Fri May 23, 2008 at 04:31:30 PM EST

Re: BREAKING UPDATE: Cardoza switch is first of 40 (none / 0)

Not to mention that the CA supers are backed up by the new LAT poll:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washingt on/2008/05/california-poll.html?cid=1161 71268#comments

Obama- 47
McCain- 40

Clinton- 43
McCain- 40

While both are within the MOE, with Clinton its really, really too close for comfort.


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 05:51:02 PM EST


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