Update: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico

by steve468, Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:24:44 PM EST

Hillary Clinton has a considerable lead just two days from the Puerto Rico Primary according to recent polling.

1)El Vocero/Univision/Greenberg, Quinlan, Rosner from 8 May - 20 May showed Clinton leading Obama by 13% points - 51% to 38% among Puerto Rico democratic primary voters.

2)Vocero/Univision Puerto Rico Poll, conducted from 8 May - 20 May showed Clinton leading Obama by 19% points - 59% to 40% among Puerto Rico democratic primary voters.

Clinton is expected to lead in the national popular vote after the Puerto Rico Primary and DNC Rules and Bylaws decision is rendered. Hillary is on the verge of having gained more popular votes than any presidential candidate in American history. Some 18 million votes will have been cast for Clinton.

Puerto Rico Polls

MORE NEWS
Clinton has gained the endorsement of Washington State Superdelegate Eileen Macoll, the vice chairwoman of the state Democratic Party. Hillary's tenacity continues in amazement, with several key endorsements despite the media's ridiculous assertion (based solely on pledged delegates) that the primary race is over.
Washington State Superdelegate Endorses Clinton

UPDATE: GALLUP POLL SAYS MEDIA TOO TOUGH ON HILLARY

Gallup Poll

UPDATE: PASTOR CONTROVERSY GROWING

Precisely at the time when Obama's camp needs to be building bridges to supporters of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, the Rev. Michael Pfleger, who's known Obama for about 20 years, took to the pulpit of Obama's church Sunday and ridiculed Clinton, using racially divisive language.

Obama Pastor Attacks Clinton


Poll
The DNC Rules and Bylaws Comittee Will
A) Decide to Seat the Michigan/Florida Delegates
B) Decide to Seat the Florida Delegates/Half the Michigan Delegates
C) Give all the Florida/Michigan Delegates 1/2 vote
D) Seat the Florida Delegates but not the Michigan Delegates
E) Refuse to Seat any Delegates
F) Dischenfranchise 2.5 Million Voters

Votes: 27
Results : Vote Link : Polls


Tags: Clinton, Puerto Rico Primary, Polls (all tags)

Display:
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By the end of the weekend, (none / 0)

the FL/MI talking point will be gone.

Can't wait.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:27:13 PM EST

Yes (2.00 / 2)

it will be completely settled that Clinton will lead and finish this race with the popular vote.  How will those remaining super delegates decide...


by linc on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree. (none / 0)

The Super D's will decide this. I hope that whatever choice they make, it is done as soon as possible


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:44:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Obama with commanding lead in Democratic Primary election.


by Lawyerish on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:28:48 PM EST

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (2.00 / 1)

You left one very important thing out, that could decide this nomination. Hillary will be leading in the national popular vote, and is best suited to beat McCain according to most polls.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:30:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

The superdelegates don't seem to be listening.

Or rather, they do. That's why they keep endorsing.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the Obama Noise Machine (2.00 / 2)

is probably gearing up..

..cringe..


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the Obama Noise Machine (none / 0)

The Hillary Campaign:

1. Vote for the rules.

  1. expect everyone to follow them.
  2. if you are losing claim the rules are unfair.


by IowaMike on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Only if you ignore caucuses and assume that Obama has 0 votes in Michigan.

No point.

This is over, even if Clinton gets everything she wants from the rules meeting, she is still mathematically out of it.


by IowaMike on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:33:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (2.00 / 1)

There is no clear way to count caucus votes, they are a joke. As far as Michigan is concerned, Obama shouldn't get any delegates, he voluntarily removed his name from the ballot. His decision! Superdelegates are not basing their decisions solely on some delegate math figures, and are free to change their minds at any time. That is why the majority of them are sitting on the fence and weighing in on many factors, including popular vote and who is best suited to beat McCain. If you think they are basing their decision solely on delegate count you are sorely mistaken.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:38:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

because....because....because...because. ...ignore the rules because...because.....

This is over, you lost.


by IowaMike on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do not engage in a comment war here (none / 0)

Nothing is more difficult than the art of maneuvering for advantageous positions.-Sin Tzu.

We can obtain an advantageous position by moving beyond the primary war, and focusing on John McCain


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ridiculous (none / 0)

The SDs will never listen to such a substance-free argument.

Nice try, though.


by Slim Tyranny on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:40:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Superdelegates are not basing their decisions solely on some delegate math figures, and are free to change their minds at any time. That is why the majority of them are sitting on the fence and weighing in on many factors, including popular vote and who is best suited to beat McCain.

According to Paul Kane, the Washington Post's Hill reporter, they're actually not.  I'll post a few salient quotes:

I hate saying this, because all the Clinton people are going to flip out and say, You're biased, you're biased, you're biased. So go ahead and flip out if you want, but the simple basic truth is that the super-delegates stopped paying attention to the Clinton-Obama race about a couple days after the Indiana and North Carolina primaries.

They've stopped paying attention to the primary, and instead they're focused on an Obama-McCain matchup in November. That's the basic, simple, definitive reality that has happened in this race. The "undecided" super-delegates at this moment are not going to "decide" any time soon, because to them the race is over, they're just waiting for Clinton to drop out.

[T]he super-delegates have moved on, they're no longer looking at how Hillary Clinton fares in battleground states against McCain. This is very hard for Clinton supporters to hear, I'm sorry, but the super-delegates are not paying attention to your candidate anymore.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe they'll endorse June 2 (2.00 / 1)

I've just heard so many times "BREAKING: 50 Superdelegates to endorse Obama this week" only to see a slow single-digit trickle that I will wait and see.


by catfish2 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:22:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

"That is why the majority of them are sitting on the fence and weighing in on many factors, including popular vote and who is best suited to beat McCain."

In what world is 191 a majority of 796?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:00:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Actually in MI Hillary should not get any delegates because she signed a pledge to not campaign and NOT PARTICIPATE in the election. When she was called on leaving her name on the ballot which was a violation of her no participation pledge she stated that every one knows this election will not count. There are 100's of links to the pledge document online and every one includes the wording "TO NOT PARTICIPATE". Look up the meaning of the word in any dictionary it means not taking part in and not getting a share in or obtaining a benefit from.

It's amazing that when there is a public record of Hillary making statements completely the opposite of what she is saying now that she thinks no one will notice.

As far as how the super delegates see this. Have a look at what a reporter who has been closely covering them at the WAPO has to say:

They've stopped paying attention to the primary, and instead they're focused on an Obama-McCain matchup in November. That's the basic, simple, definitive reality that has happened in this race. The "undecided" super-delegates at this moment are not going to "decide" any time soon, because to them the race is over, they're just waiting for Clinton to drop out.

Again, don't yell at me because I'm only the messenger here. But the super-delegates have moved on, they're no longer looking at how Hillary Clinton fares in battleground states against McCain. This is very hard for Clinton supporters to hear, I'm sorry, but the super-delegates are not paying attention to your candidate anymore.


by hankg on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't engage (2.00 / 1)

move to bashing John McCain.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:02:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They aren't all Kevin Rodriquez (none / 0)

The majority of the superdelegates "are sitting on the fence and weighing in on many factors"?

I think there are about 170 supers that haven't endorsed out of nearly 800.

I wouldn't call that a majority.


by emptythreatsfarm on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:55:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Over two-thirds of the Supers have declared.  Less than a third have not.

How is it, then, that a majority are sitting on the fence?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 06:49:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

No, I didn't leave those false statements out.

Don't worry, there'll always be that crappy website of yours to run, when Clinton is done.  I'm sure you'll stay busy putting even more widgets and videos and junk on the page.


by Lawyerish on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

My so called "crappy website" is doing very well thank you without your lousy critique. I think I will stick around for a while just to torment you :)


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Yaknow, I bet it really isn't doing so well.  I guess it depends on how you define 'well.'

I mean, the lack of responses or pageviews or hits would really say to me that it's not doing so well.  But heck, I doubt it's going to stop you from adding a few more ads or buttons or embedded videos of crap.


by Lawyerish on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Don't engage steve. He has posted comments from anti-semites and know holocaust deniers. He is a repug troll.


by venician on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:05:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

And by what metric are we counting now?  For what it's worth, Poblano predicts a turnout in the range of 400,000-800,000, with a possible Clinton margin of about 120,000, which would not be enough even if one were to count Florida, leaving out Michigan.


by rfahey22 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:34:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

LOL: OH yeah right! Over one million are going to the polls and Hillary will amass over 400,000 votes. Sorry your math is lousy.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:42:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Ha!  Ok, well, I tried.  Polls close at 3:00 p.m., on a Sunday.  I wouldn't set my sights too high, if I were you.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/


by rfahey22 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:56:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

"Over one million are going to the polls and Hillary will amass over 400,000 votes."

I assume you mean net, not total.  To get 400k votes net out of 1,000,000, you'd need a 70/30 split.   Which polls are showing that?


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:02:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

She will be leading in the national popular vote, maybe, sort of, depending on how you count it.

For instance, if you count Florida and Michigan and give Obama none of the uncommitted votes in Michigan; and if you also ignore the caucuses in Nevada, Washington, Iowa, and Maine; and if you don't count the caucus in Texas or the primaries in Nebraska and Washington; and if you assume that somehow Puerto Rico (an island of just under 4 million people) is going to turn out 2 million voters in the primary and they're going to break almost 2-to-1 for Clinton...

Then yeah, Clinton's ahead in the popular vote.

Which just goes to show you how meaningless a metric the popular vote is, in this mixed caucus/primary system.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:38:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

We don't count caucuses they are undemocratic and a complete joke. They need to be done away with, if the Democrats know what is good for them in the next cycle. What will poor Obama do without Caucus elections if he should get the nomination?


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:44:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

What will poor Obama do without Caucus elections if he should get the nomination?

Win.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:46:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't engage (2.00 / 1)

move on to John McCain and hitting him over his poor positions.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Then you go to the state democratic parties and demand that they do away with their caucus system.

They would laugh you out of the room.


by BDM on Fri May 30, 2008 at 03:00:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

You can't go on polls peeps. Polls mean nothing 6 months out. Now it is was like this:

McCain - 63
Obama - 37

McCain - 40
Clinton - 60

Then you would have a case but the difference is within 1-10 pts across the board. And there are polls which show Obama doing better than Clinton versus McCain.

If we used polls, then why have primaries?


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Fri May 30, 2008 at 03:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (2.00 / 1)

Florida and Michigan delegates will be seated.  What the penalty will be, nobody knows.  But I doubt that the DNC will let Floriday and Michigan get off the hook completely.  Even the Hillary DNC surrogates will not go for that.


by Spanky on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:31:07 PM EST

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Florida, nor Floriday.


by Spanky on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:31:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Yes your correct on that assertion, but she is not backing down at all on having them all seated according to the primary results. Since their is going to be a "media circus" tommorrow in Washington, it will be interesting to see what happens.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:33:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Not much. Even if she gets all that she wants she is still mathematically out of it.

This is over, has been over.


by IowaMike on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Great, they are really important in the GE  because...er...um...nevermind.


by IowaMike on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:34:23 PM EST

In your own immortal words....... (none / 0)

Yippee Yahoo!


by emptythreatsfarm on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:34:56 PM EST

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Clinton is expected to lead in the national popular vote after the Puerto Rico Primary and DNC Rules and Bylaws decision

I've never understood this meme. The "popular vote" is a highly abstract, unofficial measure which we can count at least six ways. We get these number by combining vote totals from wildly disparate contests with wildly disparate rules, from register-as-a-democrat-weeks-in-advance caucuses to totally-open primaries.

The numerous arbitrary ways to count the "popular vote", and the rationales behind those counts, won't change at all regardless of the DNC's decisions.

If you think votes in a contest voters were told was not going to count, in a state where candidates were not allowed to campaign, and where in one case only one major candidate was on the ballot, should count towards the popular vote ... you're free to believe that now. And you'll be just as free to think that on June 1st. And most of us will still regard it as absurd.

In other words, the DNC decision does nothing to "change" the popular vote. The entire point of the "popular vote" argument is that it serves as a proxy for the will of the people (though, as I've argued, an extremely poor proxy). The will of voters in Florida five months ago will not be affected by DNC officials in a DC meeting in June.


The primaries are over!
Focus on McCain
by really not a troll on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:35:13 PM EST

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Even her "popular vote" meme  ignores all of the people in MI that wanted to vote for Obama. Its a moot point.

2 state legislatures broke the rules. They had two undemocratic (uncontested are undemocratic) "elections." They will be sanctioned.


by IowaMike on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

In who's estimation, YOURS! Dont' insult our intelligence with your propaganda.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:46:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

I haven't made any estimations here. I've pointed out that there are at least 6 (more if you get really tricky) ways to count the popular vote, depending on whether you think counting votes after telling people that their election doesn't count is legitimate. In terms of being an approximation of the electorate, it'll be as useful (or useless) in two days as it is today.


The primaries are over!
Focus on McCain
by really not a troll on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:55:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

So lemme get this straight...

On the one hand, Clinton is arguing that she should be the nominee because she's the best candidate for the general, based on a claim that she's won the popular vote among Democrats and based on projections of polling data from six months away.

On the other hand, the only way she's likely to lead in any fair popular vote metric is with a blowout high-turnout victory in Puerto Rico, a territory that is by definition completely irrelevant in the general election.

How do those two arguments square up?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:37:09 PM EST

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

They don't. That's why the Clinton supporters who cling to these ideas (see Jerome) are so bitter.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

See my comment up stream (none / 0)

don't engage, move on to bashing John McCain and his opposition to the minimum wage increase.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:01:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

because PR has the Latino voters, who are SWING VOTERS in the GE in places, unlike the blacks who will always vote Democrat no matter who


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Do you have any credible evidence that Latinos in Puerto Rico vote in any way similarly, or on the same issues, as Latinos in the Southwest and West?

Otherwise, you're saying "well, Hillary Clinton won white people in Appalachia!  Since there are a lot of white people in the Northeast, she should be our nominee."

And I've seen your argument before as to why black voters should count less.  It's despicable and racist, and I'd advise you drop it and apologize before receiving another barrage of TRs and HRs.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:15:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't engage (none / 0)

it isn't worth it. Talk instead about how John McCain is bad for America.  


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Good thing the popular vote doesn't mean anything.


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:38:07 PM EST

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Good that the popular vote means everything. HILLARY, MORE POPULAR VOTES THAN ANY CANDIDATE IN AMERICAN HISTORY. Sounds Real Nice!!! Yippie, Yahoo, Go Hillary!!!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

5 days. Just 5 more days. n/t (2.00 / 1)


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:41:13 PM EST

See, this is a boldly dishonest approach (none / 0)

The superdelegates are not going to listen to any metric that discounts caucuses and gives nothing to Obama in Michigan.

But nice try.


by Slim Tyranny on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:43:04 PM EST

Re: See, this is a boldly dishonest approach (2.00 / 2)

He shouldn't get anything, unless you want to "change" his name to "uncommitted." Sounds like a nice campaign slogan for the Fall election.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why, because he took his name off? (none / 0)

You want to hold him to that?


by Slim Tyranny on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't engage (2.00 / 1)

fighting about PR gains us nothing for November, talking about John McCain and his opposition to the minimum wage increase or other John McCain weakness does get us somewhere.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:09:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't engage (none / 0)

Yea, I know, this wasn't even about PR, it was about Michigan.

Frankly, the analysis by some Clinton supporters is so poor and unfair that it shocks me.  Can't help but engage.


by Slim Tyranny on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto Rico (none / 0)

Puerto Rico means NOTHING.

The popular vote means NOTHING.

The race for the nomination is OVER.

Yes, HRC fought a tough campaign and lost a very close race but it is still over.

Steve knows this.  He is just trying to annoy you.


by reformed repub on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:00:25 PM EST

another mega ultra landslide (2.00 / 1)

I can't wait to see what the pundits will say. PR represents the SWING latino voters who we need in bigger numbers than before to win. That is why PR matters. It may also be a state one may, and gain electoral votes.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:09:16 PM EST

Here's what the pundits will say: (none / 0)

<YAWN>


by LongTom on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Keep Dreaming! (none / 0)

Although we'll have to wait until PR actually votes, it's doubtful that Hillary will run up a large enough margin to overtake Obama's lead in the popular vote, not that it matters at all.

The delegates to the convention choose the nominee. Obama has won that contest. Had the contest been to get the most popular votes in the primaries, he'd have developed his strategy accordingly and won that, too.

It's silly to get into a beef about the merits of the FL and MI straw polls. They are about as valid as the elections in the old Soviet Union. Hillary's arguments are laughably self-serving. Ask the next 10 year-old you see if an electon with just one person's name on the ballot is fair--or if it's fair to have an election between a world-famous person and one not so famous, and not allow either to campaign, and meanwhile tell the voters that the election won't count.

The popular vote also means nothing because so many states selected their delegates through caucuses,a nd this is not reflected in the popular vote figures (naturally, since to do so would favor Obama).

Anyway, as is typical of a Clintonite, you tell a lie. Hillary is not "on the verge of having gained more popular votes than any presidential candidate in American history."

If it matters at all, you left out the qualifier "presidential "PRIMARY" candidate," which is important, since it renders the statistic meaningless. There have never been so many contested primaries. Back in 1968 (one of Hillary's favorite reference years) there were no more than half as many primaries. So what's the point. Hilalry got a lot of votes, and still lost. Too bad she forgot to read the rule book.


by LongTom on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:10:51 PM EST

Don't engage (2.00 / 1)

it isn't worth it, don't fight this battle, instead move on to John McCain.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:14:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Keep Dreaming! (2.00 / 1)

Keep feeding us your propaganda on how the popular vote and the DNC decision doesn't matter if you must. We will continue to express HOW IMPORTANT THEY ARE, so that the superdelegates will have "food for thought" when they should decide this nomination. Your thoughts are very misleading in that you argue that none of Hillary's talking points will matter to the superdelegates. Is this just your belief, or do you know that for a fact? Oh yes, the "all and powerful Oz" knows everything!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Food for thought?" (none / 0)

The superdelegates are through thinking:

"In an online chat [at TalkLeft, Washington Post journalist Paul] Kane was asked why his newspaper isn't covering the Rasmussen daily tracking polls of a hypothetical McCain-Clinton contest:

"I've spent the past several months talking to as many super-delegates as any reporter in America, I'd guess, since I cover on a day-to-day basis about 280 of them here on Capitol Hill.

I hate saying this, because all the Clinton people are going to flip out and say, You're biased, you're biased, you're biased. So go ahead and flip out if you want, but the simple basic truth is that the super-delegates stopped paying attention to the Clinton-Obama race about a couple days after the Indiana and North Carolina primaries.

They've stopped paying attention to the primary, and instead they're focused on an Obama-McCain matchup in November. That's the basic, simple, definitive reality that has happened in this race. The "undecided" super-delegates at this moment are not going to "decide" any time soon, because to them the race is over, they're just waiting for Clinton to drop out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

...another questioner demanded: Well, what about that Gallup poll showing Hillary doing better in the swing states, huh? What about that?

Kane sighed:

"Again, don't yell at me because I'm only the messenger here. But the super-delegates have moved on, they're no longer looking at how Hillary Clinton fares in battleground states against McCain. This is very hard for Clinton supporters to hear, I'm sorry, but the super-delegates are not paying attention to your candidate anymore."


by LongTom on Fri May 30, 2008 at 05:40:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gallup Poll (none / 0)

I hate to rain on your Gallup poll there, but frankly I think it's flawed. It's not an objective poll, but a subjective poll to find people's opinions on how the media has treated each candidate.
Hillary has attacked the media in a way I can't remember since Bush was bashing the NYT, and has made "the media's too hard on me" a central theme of her campaign. Of course that's going to reflect in a subjective poll.
by Djo Dos on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:24:18 PM EST

Woohoo! People DO Like Hillary! (1.00 / 0)

See!


by catfish2 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:27:10 PM EST

Re: Update: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto (none / 0)

Old news form last week...but a reminder just the same...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/stor y/38429.html


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:35:45 PM EST

Re: Update: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto (none / 0)

..
also see Diary on Clinton concedes MI/FL
"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:36:38 PM EST

Re: Update: Clinton With Commanding Lead in Puerto (none / 0)

That is a ridiculous dairy, and totally false


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 04:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Update: Clinton With Commanding Lead (none / 0)

Not all but unfortunately many HRC supporters follow the 'count every vote' meme when it benefits their candidate; not so much when it does not.   And if popular vote had been established as a criterion for nominee selection, (1) caucus states would have shifted to primaries, and (2) Obama would have devoted more resources e.g. to California where HRC netted more than 400,000 votes, and to WV and Kentucky, trying to reduce her margin, if only slightly, rather than focusing on GE states.  

Also, this may be beyond scope of the discussion here, but by any metric the Clinton campaign has made major strategic mistakes, most notably having no plan B after 5 February. She had tremendous cash, organizational, and name-recognition advantages entering Fall of 2007.  She is an impressive candidate, with great command of issues, but her campaign has often been poorly run.  At some point the candidate must take responsibility for the work done on her/his behalf.  


by Kensingtonbill on Fri May 30, 2008 at 04:21:44 PM EST


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